Mr Brumlik, a recent survey by the Bertelsmann Foundation revealed that almost every second person in Germany is in favour of "drawing a line under the Nazi era". What is your take on this result?

Brumlik: I think it's fundamentally wrong, because coming to terms with the Shoah and the shared responsibility of many Germans decades ago is a civic obligation. Schoolchildren – regardless of whether they are "bio-Germans" or come from migrant families – need to be familiarised with this history in order to better understand Germany's normative structure and the first article of its Basic Law, according to which human dignity is inviolable.

Education is considered an effective means of combatting anti-Semitism. Yet there are quite a few very well-educated people who have something against Jews.

Brumlik: It depends on how you define education. If we're simply talking about knowledge, then obviously that is not enough. It is vital that what is read and understood is supplemented by eyewitness reports – although that won't be possible for much longer – for the information to be morally received and effectively internalised.

Track leading to Auschwitz concentration camp (image: picture-alliance/H. Fohringer) — Auschwitz concentration camp memorial: Micha Brumlik believes it makes sense to make visiting concentration camp memorials compulsory for schoolchildren in Germany. But he adds: "Without preparation and follow-up, such visits are pointless. Otherwise, they will fail to touch the pupils. Six months should be spent preparing for the visits and the follow-up should be done properly, for example, in history lessons." The best way to reach young people is "if we can acquaint them with the life stories of the camp inmates so that they can understand them"

What role does religious education play?

Brumlik: Religious education is a problem because it is optional. For those students who do take it, it remains indispensable for learning about the history of Judaism, Christianity and Islam, and also about anti-Jewish currents, which are far more common in Christianity.

You favour compulsory school trips to concentration camp memorials. What form should they take?

Brumlik: Without preparation and follow-up, such visits are pointless. Otherwise, their impact will be transitory. Six months should be spent preparing for the visits and there should be a proper follow-up, conducted, for example, during history lessons.

With regard to the memorial sites: what is the best way to reach young people?

Brumlik: The best way to reach young people is if we can acquaint them with the life stories of the camp inmates, so that they can empathise with them.

We have already touched on the fact that contemporary witnesses won't be around for much longer. You yourself reject the so-called digitalisation of memory – for example, when Shoah survivors appear as holograms.

Brumlik: I am resolutely opposed to digital ghosts being used as interlocutors. History is history, and you can't resurrect what happened electronically. When it comes to media mediation, I imagine films like Claude Lanzmann's "Shoah", in which numerous survivors have their say, would be a much better option.

Cover of Micha Brumlik's "Judentum. Islam. Ein neues Dialogszenario", published in German by Hentrich & Hentrich (source: publisher) — Micha Brumlik advocates institutionalising the dialogue between Jews and Muslims in much the same way as Judeo-Christian dialogue has been. "Personally I gained a lot from exploring the Koran and the question of whether and under what circumstances Islam emerged on the Arabian Peninsula, potentially also as a result of the confrontation with Judaism," says Brumlik. "It was also important for me to look again at the history of Muslim-Jewish coexistence in medieval Spain. This is knowledge and experience that is of immense importance to coexistence in the present, including in Germany"

Do you expect the emerging Jewish Academy in Frankfurt to play a role in fostering a culture of remembrance?

Brumlik: I certainly expect something of the kind, although I am fully aware that such academies, including the Protestant and Catholic ones, have quite a limited sphere of influence. If anything, the impact relates to a highly committed audience.

There are calls for Jewish life to feature much more prominently in schools than it does at present.

Brumlik: I think that makes sense. The Jewish community has offered to send children, young people and even adults from Jewish families into schools to convey that this small minority is "completely normal", just like other people.

Beyond such projects, how can Jewish life be conveyed in the classroom?

Brumlik: I could imagine a module in which information is provided on the life and work of Jews during the post-war period, both in the Federal Republic and in the GDR. That children and young people are taught about what goes on in synagogues. They should be given a realistic picture regarding how many Jews live in Germany today and under what circumstances.

You are committed to Christian-Jewish dialogue. How is that faring at the moment?

Brumlik: It is reaching an interested, though not always well-informed, public. That is why I advocate corresponding educational events that allow interested people to pass on their knowledge. An extraordinary amount has happened in recent decades. One topic currently very much on the minds of dialogue groups is the question of whether the Israel-Palestine conflict should be judged theologically. It is a political conflict to which one must react politically. To extrapolate or discuss it theologically is, in my opinion, a distraction.

Let's take a look at Judaism and Islam as well. In your contribution to the book "Judaism. Islam. Ein neues Dialogszenario" (Hentrich & Hentrich 2022), you advocate focusing more on commonalities and institutionalising this dialogue in a similar way to the dialogue between Jews and Christians.

Brumlik: In the Oranienburger Strasse synagogue in Berlin, where I pray, there is a Jewish-Muslim women's group. That's a hugely positive development. Also the fact that there are good contacts between the Jewish Ernst-Ludwig-Ehrlich-Studienwerk and the Muslim Avicenna-Studienwerk. All this can help cushion domestic tensions in Germany arising – albeit not exclusively – from the Palestinian conflict.

Personally I gained a lot from exploring the Koran and the question of whether and under what circumstances Islam emerged on the Arabian Peninsula, potentially also as a result of the confrontation with Judaism. It was also important for me to look again at the history of Muslim-Jewish coexistence in mediaeval Spain. This is knowledge and experience that is of immense importance to coexistence in the present, including in Germany.

What do you think of the fact that the Schalom Aleikum project run by Germany's Central Council of Jews is now to be continued as a think tank and will therefore become more research-based?

Brumlik: It is great in principle. We will have to wait and see whether the expectations associated with it will be fulfilled. The project has undoubtedly earned the chance.

You hold the Buber-Rosenzweig Medal, which is linked to the idea of Christian-Jewish understanding. What does this award mean to you?

Brumlik: It means a great deal to me. It is a great honour to be mentioned in the same breath as those two giants of Jewish thought, Martin Buber and Franz Rosenzweig. (CNA)

Micha Brumlik is professor emeritus of education at the Johann Wolfgang Goethe University in Frankfurt am Main and a publicist. His publications include numerous non-fiction books, essays and articles on the history of Judaism and on current topics.

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